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| sandbagging near Missouri Route 63 |
The standard rule for Spades, according to Pagat, is to keep track of "bags" or overtricks as they accrue. These are just extra tricks taken, above what the team bid. When a team collects 10 bags, they are penalized -100 points, and their bag count is wiped clean.
It seems that "most" players do play with a penalty for bags. Tell me - how do you feel about playing a game of Spades without the bag penalty? Have you ever done this? Opinions, pro and con, are welcome.
Edit: I'm adding this not to make it clear that if this feature is added as a new option, it would be opt-in. So a player would have to edit their Spades options to sit at such a table. There is a similar kind of option for Hearts, right now ("allow first turn hearts").
38 comments:
I would like to see the bag roller taken way. Just let the extra bags count as a point
HI all, I'm Mich. To play without a bag penalty would encourage underbidding, It would be a very strange idea that I would definitely vote against, even as an option. there are already enough options that increase the wait. I certainly feel that if it is introduced there should not be an either option.
Spades is a game of great skill and daring. To have all the benefits without the costs would make it a safe weak version of the game
Playing spades without the bag rule removes an important part of the strategy of the game.
Bill-Bob
Playing without a bag penalty removes an important part of the strategy of the game. I agree with Mich and vote against it.
Bill-Bob
like it as is
Seems fairly emphatic that its ok as it is, was designed and should be.
Remove bags and call it bagless or gutless but definatelely not spades
FWIW I won't make a decision on this for a while, so the comments are open until it's decided.
Also, I would definitely make this an opt-in feature - so anyone who wants to can choose it, but you would not wind up in such a game by accident.
The rule should stand... no change
The bag penalty is a major part of Spades, part & parcel of a good bidding strategy, and, for me, makes the game more challenging & fun.
Def keep the bags penalty - the challenge is good. NO CHANGE PLEASE... thanks!
Definitely agree with Stuart..... keep bag penalty! Thanks
Hello Everyone, I have read all the comment in here about keeping the bags. I really do not understand! Spades is meant to be played by bidding the highest you can bid (13 total tricks), and if someone get set during the game. They use the bag rollover to get back in the game. So how’s that playing spades the way the game was meant to be played?
I've never played it without bags. Only learned spades on this website. Sounds like playing without bags might require greater concentration on bidding skills and setting the opponents. Might be interesting to try. There are always more than just one way to do things. Maybe could have two separate games available--spades with bags and then one with spades without bags. Not an option just two separate games?
Would be interesting just to see what it is like without bags once. Might find I like it better. Looked it up on other sites and couldn't find it played without bags, or I would have tried it there.
Hello everyone this is Tracy, and I have been the one that has put the post in about not having the rollover. When I started playing a long long time ago bags were just an extra point. That means you had to bid everything in your hand. If you underbid than you were taking point out of your hand. Would you ever see someone throw the king of spades off on the ace? (NO) Or if they were short suited and had spades in there hand, and not trump it? (NO) You would be throwing away points if you did! If everybody sat back and thought about it, and how you would play if there was no rollover I think you could see what I’m talking about. The game would be played.
I like this Tracy. It explains your thoughts really well. I hope it gets alot of people just thinking about how the game could be played. That was how I played the game when I first came to this website. It is not how I play it today. That doesn't mean that how they play it is wrong, its just a different way to play. It would be very nice to be able to have the option of playing the game the way I was brought up to play. It is more of an all out style of play, where you take as many tricks as you can. Where a cheap trick is a reward. If you don't bid your hand you lose.
I believe it would speed up the game.
I learned spades the other way. Without bags. Nobody underbid. Everyone was always looking to get more tricks to set their opponents and if you underbid you lost the game. I just want the option of playing the game the way we learned. Which is not wrong, by the way, just different. The 2 styles of play do not mix.
The old in life is vintage and often times better constructed. I vote to try Tracy's way as an option.
I, for one, can't wait until its an option! The two styles do not mesh well. I'm tired of trying to play a game like that. Its not fun. Its discouraging.
Yes, it is ok to play the game that way, but if you chose not to and the option is available to opt out, you can bet some players will. I will.
I vote "no bags"
i like the bags penilty as i have always played it this way but i can see traceys view but the real reason of me playing spades is the people
bags are part of the fun of spades,trying to bag the other side and trying not to get bagged is all part of the game,it's a fun game ,please don't loose the fun,it is after skill and it's just a game
2 games, one with bags (as is) and one without is a great idea. Gives everyone the option of trying out the one without. If this version garners more attention then we keep both versions. Simple! This way everyone gets what they want!
I agree bags are a part of the fun of spades, trying to bag the other side and trying not to get bagged is all a part of the game. It is skill and a challenge for the game. Don't add it as a option either since it would take away from the pool of players.
A definite YES to keeping the bags.
Earlier I commented not to change things........HOWEVER since listening to others views I think giving the option is the answer. We want it fun for all!!! thanks
I previously stated my opinion was to keep things as they are... HOWEVER after listening to others and considering their feelings I have changed my tune. Adding the option seems to be the answer so we can all be happy and the game fun for everyone!! Thanks
Bag penalties maybe fun for some, but not fun for all. The way I learned the game was to bid all out. Even to the point where you were overbidding. Always looking to take every trick you could. To be penalized for this style of play vs the bag penalty style is definitely not a fun way to play the game. The option to play without penalty would be greatly appreciated by more players, than just me....
Hi everyone! I have added an option to play a variation of Spades which does not apply a penalty for bags. Please read my new blog post for more details: new option! - no bag penalty variation in spades
Thank you so very much.
I Completely Agree! I too, Grew up playing the game Without "Bags". If you Set a team, then that was it! No comeback fore them! I guess Some People out there Don't Play Fair, so the Bag Rule came in to play. Sad!!!
I have played Spades with and without bags. I DETEST the bag rule. Underbidding is punished quite nicely by only awarding one opine (or even no points) for overtricks. On the other hand, overbidding is not punished by the bag rule. Here is an example. Suppose your side bids 3 and my side bids 8. Suppose there is some SKILLED play that allows my side to take 10 tricks. Instead of a net gain of 110, we only gain 90 due to bags. Not only that.... Suppose my side plays to set you and falls short a few times. Suppose we've been dealt roughly equal cards and have bid 5 per side each game. Now we've played 8 hands and each have a score of 400 from bidding. But my side, by WINNING more tricks and PLAYING BETTER has racked up 16 bags to your side's 8. For playing more skillfully, we are BEHIND by almost 100 points due to the retarded bag rule. And since there are bags for making too many tricks, those who try to set their opponents can be harshly punished. The game devolves into a bizzaro world attempt to take FEWER tricks and hope to compel the opponents to take more. Setting the opponent is hardly worth while since doing so can incur so many bags. If you want a game of skill, where aggression to success in play is rewarded and poor bidding is punished, play with no bags.
There's a lot more strategy when playing with bags that you don't mention in your critique. Knowing when to try to set, when it's pointless, when to recognize that your partner is trying to set and when s/he thinks it's hopeless... those are all a big part of playing with bags. Knowing when your opponents are trying to load you up with bags in an effort to make you "roll", and using that to try to get extra tricks that you wouldn't normally count on, is also a skill.
It can also be fun to play without the bag rule, it's just different. You can play without the bag rule at World of Card Games - there's an Option for it at Private Tables.
I learned the game without bags. It is a vastly superior game.
"bags" comes from the term sandbag. Apparently some morons would grossly underbid in the effort to get their opponents to overbid. Such a strategy should not be discouraged in the rules. Mostly, its just inferior. Only the dullest of wits will simply bid more because you bid less, especially if they get snookered once by it. Secondly, if someone is dumb enough to fall for it, they deserve their fate. Allowing people the option to try this approach makes the game better. While all of these arguments are sound, they are not so big a deal. But this is..... The point of playing a trick game is to bid and make tricks and try to prevent your opponents from making their contract. Bags kills that. Suppose you try to set them and fail. You get punished with extra bags that are, in essence, worth -9 each. Many games will devolve into an effort to avoid bags. Instead of trying to take tricks, you are trying to NOT take tricks. It also removes any advantage to the players who can score extra tricks. The SKILL of a trick taking game is taking more tricks. That should NEVER be penalized. Only mouth-breathers and bingo players play spades with bags.
The bag rule punishes skill True, it prompts some other strategies, such as trying not to take tricks, but overall, it favors poor players and all it really does is create randomness since overtricks are largely unavoidable and luck, far more than skill, decides who winds up with too many. But take away the bags rule and now the skill matters and players can also be far more aggressive about trying to set the opponent. In fact, I think overtricks should be worth MORE, something like 2.5 points each.
You're not making your point by using hyperbole and insults. The fact is, the game is most widely played with bags. You can play it without bags if you can find enough people to do so, but calling everyone who plays it this way a "moron" is ludicrous.
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