I recently got an email from a player who thinks it would be better if the "stats" area in World of Card Games did not show your Win Ratio. Their idea is that people are too concerned about their win/loss ratio, and this motivates them to quit games when they are losing. They thought that without this ratio being displayed, people would be less likely to quit.
What do you think? Should I get rid of the Win Ratio under the stats area?
32 comments:
count quits as losses. solves that problem.
I too would appreciate more ways to encourage people to stay to the end and be less competitive. We previously discussed a table option to only sit with people who have a low "abandoned" rating.
I suppose it might have an effect. Being the one who prompted the post cBe mentioned, I have been part of my fair share of games in which someone left right at the end. If it's a table that doesn't allow robots, I just leave, too, regardless of which team I'm on, as I don't want to stick anyone else with a loss.
I cannot say for sure the precise effect the posted ratios have, though they seem to have some. Still, who are we bragging to exactly? "Hey, guys, look at my win ratio!" Seems silly, really.
More of a concern to me is having drop outs (& ins & outs, etc.) in the middle of a hand. I wish there were some way to have - irrespective of personal preferences/settings - a bot fill in at least until the end of a hand, otherwise it's horribly disruptive - not to mention puts the one joining in the middle in a completely blind situation with someone else's bid and not knowing what's been played already, etc. That's not an issue once the hand is over.
Back to the topic: it would be a shame to discontinue something of value to those who follow their stats simply because of people who quit to preserve them. At any rate, I have noticed more often people quiting just because they are mad at having been set, wherever it occurs in the game.
At the end of the day, I guess I wouldn't care either way. What matters more to me is that you, Marya, are pleased with your contribution to all of our happiness. I am sure you don't get praised enough. You must be a truly wonderful person.
*(Now if only the bots would stop over-trumping their partners and stop leading trump every time they didn't order it up ;-)
*minor issues in the grand scheme of things
Yes, because the spirit of competition is so bourgeosie, you know. Eliminate it and no one will bother quitting a game (or joining one, for that matter, an unfortunate side effect).
drdammit@sbcglobal.net
Not sure my original post was successfully published.
We already have a feature to deal with the jerks that quit when losing.
I have a number of players that behave badly on my dislike list.
Tempted to name names and call them out publicly but I won't.
I like the feature to keep track of my stats
Bill Bob
I don't like the idea of counting leaving as a loss. Sometimes you are thrown out of a game because of computer or website problems. How could the system tell if it was a problem or you just left the game?
yes get rid of it
In my post yesterday I failed to thank marya.
I echo the comments from davidly regarding marya.
Thank You for all the hard work marya!
I agree with the post at 10:13AM. My internet connection has dropped leaving me unable to rejoin the game. For that reason counting leaving as a loss would not be a good idea at all. Also if someone will get a loss for leaving or a loss for staying if they are not going to win they will still leave as either option causes the same result. In short losses for leaving will not work.
I would also like to add my thanks. There is no other card site quite like this one so thank you MaryA for creating and maintaining the site.
As someone mentioned below, counting quits as losses is not a fair solution. It's impossible to tell whether someone left the table due to a dropped internet connection, or because they are a poor sport.
There's already a stat which tracks the number of "abandonments". People who quit when losing will have a disproportionately high number of abandonments. Eventually, I will probably give people an option to discriminate based on this. Currently it doesn't make a lot of sense to do so, since it will just lead to an even longer wait time.
cBe, I do think that eventually this kind of feature will be added. It's not the highest priority right now, because the site doesn't get so many players. I don't want to add another option that will cause players to wait even longer for a game to start.
davidly, Thank you for your kind words! I am really very glad to provide people with a venue where they can play a friendly game of cards. I will keep trying to improve things, including the bot strategy.
It's an interesting idea to have a bot fill in when someone has left mid-hand. It would be a bit complex to implement... and I'd be afraid to do it since I know some people just can't tolerate bots, even if it means a new human partner is playing "blind," so to speak.
At any rate, I have noticed more often people quiting just because they are mad at having been set, wherever it occurs in the game.
Like you, I tend to think that most of the quitters are those who just can't handle taking a setback like this. They are the ones who quit as soon as they get the Queen of Spades in Hearts, or those who quit when their nil bid is set in Spades, etc. Removing stats won't stop this.
You may be surprised, but a number of players have told me that they don't give a hoot about their stats; they play almost entirely for social reasons. It really is possible to get a lot of fun from the games, even when not keeping a strict eye on the score.
But I do realize a number of people like to see their stats - I can't tell for sure, but I suspect a lot do.
Yup, if it bugs you enough, it's best to dislike players who quit when losing (if you can catch them before they exit). This is probably the best thing to do, right now.
I agree - there's really no way to tell why a player left. Leaving before the game finishes is already recorded as an abandonment. Almost everyone has a few abandonments for one reason or another, so it's not big deal, unless someone does it a lot in order to avoid losses. In those cases, it will probably count against the quitters, eventually.
There seem to be strong feelings about this on either side. I think too many people want to see their stats - and I suspect removing the stats will not really solve the underlying problem of people quitting.
Thank you, very nice of you to say so!
Thank you! See my comments above regarding abandonments... I agree that an abandonment should not be counted as a loss.
I enjoy seeing my win progress .. But am mindful that while we strive to win .. The reason we play is to have fun .. Keep the stats ..
Reverand Steven P. Eggum ( RevEggum)
Keep the stats, only you can see them. I have found that the most that leave are with the guess I D s. Mary you made a place for us to come and have fun, thank you
Count a quit as a loss if the quitting player has the highest points?
Count a quit as a loss if the player has the highest points when he leaves?
agree, get rid of it.
I like the stats. My gripe is with people who quit before the game is officially over, thereby screwing the winner
Removing the stats is a good idea. It "may" reduce the number of quitters before a game ends. However, let's not forget that there are legitimate reasons for not finishing a game eg. connection, more pressing matters. It is after all a leisurely "game". wocg is a fun site; especially when playing with friendly and not so serious people!
"Count a quit as a loss if the quitting player has the highest points?"
+1
I like the stats. They are only for me so just give me an idea of how I am doing. I don't use them for anything more than that. Information.
There are only a few reasons I would quit a game - 1. I get thrown out by something technical (happens a lot); 2. I am playing with someone who is really rude and in spite of interventions by the players, continues to be so; 3. phone call, knock on door, roof falling in - life goes on while I am playing and while I try to carry on, the odd time, the only thing I can do is leave the table. I NEVER quit a game because I am losing just to enhance my stats. If people are really doing that, they totally miss the point of this social game.
Sorry, can't figure out how to put this comment with my name but I am Lulu on the site.
In any case, I vote to keep the stats.
Please continue showing win/loss percentages. The FACT is, that it is a prime motivator to play and you want as many site hits as possible. This was my biggest complaint at royalgames.com that they did NOT show this ratio. It's too negative to say oh people drop out because of their win-loss. But I DO think you should dump the "I don't like this player" star...players are going to vote down someone who consistently beats them, and you already have profanity blocked, so why subject good players to the whims of characterless players???
Hi Lulu, I'm curious to know how often you get thrown off the site by something technical (e.g. 1 out of 2 games, 1 out of 10 games?). Also if you can give me any details about your system it might help me to know what's wrong (are you using wi-fi, what kind of computer operating system, what browser...). You can write me with details at marya@worldofcardgames.com
The "dislike player" feature has no negative effect on the player that you dislike. It just allows you to avoid sitting with a player that you dislike (for any reason), in future games.
Hi Marya, I just sent you an e-mail. Thanks for your follow up on this.
yes definitely. it's absolutely no help at all because you enter games and maybe two plays later it's over and you lost. thank you
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